Curse

Ensabah Nur · Feb 14, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Okay. I'm going to remain in control of myself this time and point out that all the people saying they're going to be skipping Chapter 2 if ArenaNet doesn't give them a slot for everything they want are basically refusing to buy the brand new car because it doesn't automatically come with a radio.

Actually if we decide not to purchase we would not be buying the car because it doesn't have all 4 tires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

You are ignoring a staggeringly large release with two entirely new character classes, an entire new storyline, and several new modes of play, because of a decidedly minor secondary point. It is through no fault of Anet's that people used every slot they got in Prophecies inside of a month. I remain convinced that ArenaNet intended for people to focus on one or two character classes and master those as opposed to simply skimming the basics of everything, then proclaiming to the world at large that 'i cn play evry toon'. Yes Bob, you can play every type of character decently, but you are by no means a master of any of them. And those that are, well hey, get another account.

To you it's a minor secondary point to the majority it's a major issue. We paid for Prophecies why couldn't/shouldn't we play/use it as we see/saw fit. I have 3 characters(different primaries) on my account that are all lvl 20 and 1 character I keep in pre sear to help guildmates/friends. What you are "convinced" about or even what Anet "intended" has no bearing on this subject. If you read my posts, you'd know that we have bought and payed for 7 copies of Prophecies and 4 were for our household, I don't think we'll be buying another copy of prophecies (for this household anyway).

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

I, personally, made the decision early in Prophecies to wait on using my other slots as opposed to playing everything I could because I didn't figure we'd get any extra character slots with expansion games. Yes, I'm in the vast minority, but my point is that I'm willing to focus on the larger picture instead of being boged down by what are truly insignificant details. As for skipping the game entirely just because of this, that's your choice, but I highly recommend against such action.

Again, only to you and the minority are they insignificant details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

See, in card games, when a new expansion set releases, there are always a few people who, unsatisfied with some policy or other of the releasing company, decide not to invest in these new tools. In virtually every case, these people are at a severe disadvantage against those who use the new cards, because they simply do not have the options everyone else does. Guild Wars is the same.

Guild Wars is the same? hmmm I seem to distinctly remember Anet stating that by no means would the "Delicate Gameplay Balance" aka advantages/disdvantages be disturbed one way or the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

The game will be balanced, come Factions release, in regard to the existence of the Ritualist and Assassin classes. Despite what ArenaNet says, you will be playing an incomplete game should you choose to skip Factions, as not only will you not have the new classes, you will not have the new storylines, maps, benefits, or even the full skill lists of the core professions anymore.

What good would it do those of us that have used all of the characters slots we payed for already with Prophecies to buy a game with new Characters that we can't use unless we deleted Characters we've played for months?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Despite all this, I respect ArenaNet very much for not making the expansions compulsory. You can, indeed, choose to skip one, but I for one would need a much better reason to do so, and thus subect myself to incomplete gameplay which is a shadow of what other players are experiencing, simply because I can't have an individual character for every single profession. To me, such is very high on the Ludicrous Meter.

You don't reect a great game because it doesn't have quite the number of save slots you'd like it to, guys.

I think your J key is broken. And yes, you do Reject a product that isn't satisfactory to you.

Still have questions/arguments for us not getting 8 total slots with Prophecies+Factions(other than "That's the way it should be because I said so"?) re-read my previous post because you obviously didn't understand it.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Okay. I'm going to remain in control of myself this time and point out that all the people saying they're going to be skipping Chapter 2 if ArenaNet doesn't give them a slot for everything they want are basically refusing to buy the brand new car because it doesn't automatically come with a radio.

Actually that is quite a good comparison seeing as we refuse to buy the car due to the lack of options, like GPS, airco,... that other cars do offer. Why settle for a product that in our opinions doesn't fulfill our needs or wants if there are other competitors around that will do so. In the end we decide what we buy, seeing as it is our money and this will only hurt GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

You are ignoring a staggeringly large release with two entirely new character classes, an entire new storyline, and several new modes of play, because of a decidedly minor secondary point. It is through no fault of Anet's that people used every slot they got in Prophecies inside of a month.

If you had known something about peoples buying habits then you had known for a fact that people don't decide to buy a product because of a teensy tiny detail that isn't according to their wishes. And to be honest it doesn't matter if the rest of the product in question is so good, in the end only the parts that are bad will be remembered for future releases. Since its harder to get a dissatisfied costumer back in the fold then acquiring 1 new one. Not to mention that the bad advertising from 1 person reaches way more people on average then the advertisement of a satisfied customer. (10/3 ratio)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

I remain convinced that ArenaNet intended for people to focus on one or two character classes and master those as opposed to simply skimming the basics of everything, then proclaiming to the world at large that 'i cn play evry toon'. Yes Bob, you can play every type of character decently, but you are by no means a master of any of them. And those that are, well hey, get another account.

The people requesting for more slots are actually the people that don't skim anything, and want to dedicate their time in mastering each and any of the professions. I'm pretty darned sure that if you compare the people that got ran with the people that didn't get ran that the majority of these ranned people are the people that are concentrating themselves on a couple chars while just having added the others to get full unlocks. While the people that do want to play 6 (or how many other primers there are) primers will in essence practically never skip any of the basics seeing as its exactly these basics that these people wanna get acquinted with so they can better understand the needs and frustrations within group of their teammates. Which is again something that will benefit as well the pve as the pvp part. And getting another account just so i can do all the unlocks again, no thanks that is not something which I'm inclined to do especially not seeing that that seems to be pointless grind... They should have added 6 character slots from the start with professions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

I, personally, made the decision early in Prophecies to wait on using my other slots as opposed to playing everything I could because I didn't figure we'd get any extra character slots with expansion games. Yes, I'm in the vast minority, but my point is that I'm willing to focus on the larger picture instead of being boged down by what are truly insignificant details. As for skipping the game entirely just because of this, that's your choice, but I highly recommend against such action.

I expected nothing else then new character slots seeing that you can't just come out with new characters and then expect pve people to just throw away all the time they already put into it. Not to mention that most of us didn't just start to fill those character slots all at once, but did so gradually after they finished the game with each and wanted to get acquanted with the other teammembers problems. Heck if i hadn't gone and play my monk, I would never have been so watchfull for if they get targetted, or watch my aggro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

See, in card games, when a new expansion set releases, there are always a few people who, unsatisfied with some policy or other of the releasing company, decide not to invest in these new tools. In virtually every case, these people are at a severe disadvantage against those who use the new cards, because they simply do not have the options everyone else does. Guild Wars is the same.

The game will be balanced, come Factions release, in regard to the existence of the Ritualist and Assassin classes. Despite what ArenaNet says, you will be playing an incomplete game should you choose to skip Factions, as not only will you not have the new classes, you will not have the new storylines, maps, benefits, or even the full skill lists of the core professions anymore.

Why would/should we care. If we don't buy factions it means we have something else that we prefer to spend money on. Being this your girlfriend/boyfriend or just another game, as i mentioned before oblivion, Gothic3, NWN2, etc... there is way more competition coming up during this year which will eat away customers that would have otherwise been interested in GW-F but will have to deicide on the product that fulfills most of their needs. Since in the end you can't get everyhting...

Not to mention that they can't make the game unbalanced with the introduction of the rit and assasin, seeing as that would completely undermine the trust in the delicate balance that they are trying to achieve, from which all those balance adjustments are a striking indication.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Despite all this, I respect ArenaNet very much for not making the expansions compulsory. You can, indeed, choose to skip one, but I for one would need a much better reason to do so, and thus subect myself to incomplete gameplay which is a shadow of what other players are experiencing, simply because I can't have an individual character for every single profession. To me, such is very high on the Ludicrous Meter.

Well, like I said this is for me not the reason to skip 'one', but at least multiple chapters not to say all. And i have a feeling I'm not going to be the only one. In any case, if that where the case as you stated we would have had incomplete gameplay from the start, and to be honest thats utter BS. All it means is that you will keep to playing an older version of the game with which you had fun, but won't bother to buy the expansion(s). And just as you might find it ludicrous that there ar epeople that find it a breaking issue in their respective further purchases, we could find it ludicrous that there are people that don't feel the same. So please don't make fun of somebody elses opinion, just because it differs from 'your opinion'. In the end it is our money that we are going to spend, and if ANET wants my money, then they will need to keep the 4 extra slots even for non standalone play otherwise well competition enough on the market and I really won't shed a tear if they go bankrupt, there will be always another company taking their place that maybe will listen to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

You don't reect a great game because it doesn't have quite the number of save slots you'd like it to, guys.

You reject a game if it lacks the features you consider to be important. And for me that is a lack of savegame slots. And as I have been reading here, I'm not the only one.

cheers

PS: excuse me for my crappy english... it is my third language...

LaserLight · Feb 14, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

A.) Yes, my J key actually is broken. Apologies, I'll try to watch it.

B.) Let's run a thought experiment here. ArenaNet, like any other organization in the history of existence, has limited resources and manpower. Yes, our needs and wants influence what the company does, but they can only respond to a certain number of needs and wants before stretching their resources and manpower too far. At this stage, the hands go up and Anet says to the players "we've done what we can. Live with it."

Now, given this, what would you prefer Anet work on: fundamental balancing issues, new and innovative content, regulation of existing skills (nerfs/buffs) in order to keep things fresh and flowing...or numerical nothings such as character slot count? Yes, it seems like the easiest fix in the world, but perhaps adding more character slots to an account is more difficult than people give it credit for - thus, why Anet hasn't already done it. Assume for the moment, say, that Anet has a valid reason for limiting the number ov available character slots. Again, I ask, where should their resources go?

New content, or a bigger helping of old content?

I'm not arguing against new slots in Factions, God no. I'd like them as much as the next guy. But me? I'm good with two extra slots. Hell, for a while I thought it was one extra slot and was happy enough. Yeah, kinda bites that people can't play every primary, but from what I've seen of current opinion, Assassin primaries are going to be about as common as golden eggs, and Elementalists are dying out.

Ye might have to pick and choose your favorite PvE characters. Yes, it really, really bites that you'd have to delete chars you worked forever one, but then, you keep the skills unlocked with that character, so it wasn't wasted effort (which in many games it is). And I'm one to want new and interesting more than a bigger spoonful of yesterday's mashed potatoes.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 14, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

A.) Yes, my J key actually is broken. Apologies, I'll try to watch it.

B.) Let's run a thought experiment here. ArenaNet, like any other organization in the history of existence, has limited resources and manpower. Yes, our needs and wants influence what the company does, but they can only respond to a certain number of needs and wants before stretching their resources and manpower too far. At this stage, the hands go up and Anet says to the players "we've done what we can. Live with it."

Now, given this, what would you prefer Anet work on: fundamental balancing issues, new and innovative content, regulation of existing skills (nerfs/buffs) in order to keep things fresh and flowing...or numerical nothings such as character slot count? Yes, it seems like the easiest fix in the world, but perhaps adding more character slots to an account is more difficult than people give it credit for - thus, why Anet hasn't already done it. Assume for the moment, say, that Anet has a valid reason for limiting the number ov available character slots. Again, I ask, where should their resources go?

New content, or a bigger helping of old content?

I'm not arguing against new slots in Factions, God no. I'd like them as much as the next guy. But me? I'm good with two extra slots. Hell, for a while I thought it was one extra slot and was happy enough. Yeah, kinda bites that people can't play every primary, but from what I've seen of current opinion, Assassin primaries are going to be about as common as golden eggs, and Elementalists are dying out.

Ye might have to pick and choose your favorite PvE characters. Yes, it really, really bites that you'd have to delete chars you worked forever one, but then, you keep the skills unlocked with that character, so it wasn't wasted effort (which in many games it is). And I'm one to want new and interesting more than a bigger spoonful of yesterday's mashed potatoes.

OMG Laser please read the following again carefully and this will refute your whole "experiment"

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur
Wether we keep Factions seperate or not from Prophecies should have no bearing on how many character slots are given. If Anet is going to give us 4 character slots with Factions(which they already officially stated), then it makes no difference in server/memory space if we combine them with Prophecies or not. So therefore we should have a minimum of 8 character slots regardless. Matter of fact combining the 2 will take up just a tiny bit less server/memory space because it will be only 1 account to track instead of 2.

If it makes no differance in server /memory space then it makes no differance in maintenance/resources.( I apologize I thought this would have been understood)

As for your argument "We've done what we can. Live with it." that would be the same as saying "Because we said so." Which is not acceptable to most consumers.
Also the problem with it , is we know already that they will let us Link Factions to Prophecies so they have the technology/knowledge.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Actually to be honest I would prefer character slots. Since it would keep me playing for another 1 - 2 months (more if i have less time) just to go through the growthprocess and to finish all the yet available quests and the experimenting with different builds to accomplish something in a team.

Those 2 months then give a bit of a breather for the resurgence of developping other content.

And no adding more slots to 1 account is just as easy as adding a chapter to a book. You just do copypaste in the things you already written and expand some of the controlling entries. It normally takes as much as 1 - 2 people going ovr the code for 1 - 3 days depending on the amount of code they will have to go through. But that can in max be only 10000 - 15000 lines seeing that it is only important for the selectionscreen and the automatic backupfile. And even that is an exageration if most of the programming has been done in an object oriented fashion. So they can root it back to maybe 1 or 2 functions that needs to be extended.

Just as necromancer were seen as a dieing profession you see the high demand for them now, and this after a the latest skillbalancing. So all is not lost and I expect that the eles will get a buff skillwise, and the assasin will be balanced properly as well to make it more worth to be a primary. But this has no bearing on not making the primers available.

The whole reason behind not adding 4 more slots is a financial decission. Just as the decission behind starting with only 4 slots and 6 profs was one. It made the real addicts (no offense) buy multiple times the same release to get their profitmargin up. (prolly because of some preset number of sold copies needed to be profitable). But if they offer 4 slots for a standalone version of GW-F then I expect nothing less for the combined package, and this was a marketing and PR mistake on their part.

The thing they should have done if they had wanted me to be ok with only 2 slots would have been: Announce the introduction of GW-F with 2 charslots for the standalone way. Then state that they weren't sure about the number of slots for the combined version and let a number of 1 be rumored to go round. Then you would see a lot of people start the same outcries and threads for at least 2 slots, the same as the standalone version would have.
I would then leave rumors for a little while circulating around making people be unsure of what is happening and then I would declare that it would be 2 for the combined version.

At the same time I would launch the option of adding characer slots to an account under the call of listening to hte communities needs and offering a small reduction in price for extra characterslots to the owners of the previous chapters. Meaning The price would be set at 5 bucks a slot, and then deducting 1 buck if you had the previous chapters as well. This would show people that you care about your previous buyers, you satisfy the needs of all and you made people more succeptible to a scheme like this to maximize profits. But with the announcement of the 4 slots standalone version they have putten themselves in a fickle. Since now i won't accept less then what I consider fair as simple math 4 + 4 != 6.

And no I won't keep my skills unlocked seeing that if I ever wanna go in pve after a balance update with an ele and i just deleted my ele, it will take me 1 month at least to do quests again to get all the skills, get extra skillpoints to be able to afford some of the other skills and then do skillcapruns to get elites, resulting in me maybe being to late to play around with my ele because of some possible other nerf or buff to another profession.

Gli · Feb 14, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

New content, or a bigger helping of old content?

Why do you equate a desire for more slots with 'a bigger helping of old content'? That makes no sense at all.

Maybe I'd like to sample the new level 20 content with each of my existing characters (each of which I still play regularly) instead of deleting them? Maybe I want a permanent character in the Factions-equivalent of pre-searing as well? One new slot just won't cut it for me, and im not going to shell out money for that.

ReclinerOfRage · Feb 14, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

1 slot?

What a load of bullcrap.

These are the same people who developed Battlenet, which allowed you to make an unlimited number of accounts and usernames per cd key. Storing a few bytes of data on the server costs Arenanet NOTHING.

They are being greedy, plain and simple.

fiery · Feb 14, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

1 slot?

What a load of bullcrap.

These are the same people who developed Battlenet, which allowed you to make an unlimited number of accounts and usernames per cd key. Storing a few bytes of data on the server costs Arenanet NOTHING.

They are being greedy, plain and simple.

HELLS YA, greedy i agree completley! Giving us free servers, no montly fees, hella good graphics, screw them! SCREW THEM! So what if they developed B.Net Guild Wars is one the best games they created. Others were Stategric games which dont require much bandwith or memory such as each million Guild Wars account out there. A.net makes its money PER campaign. Are you getting monthly emails to dish out some cash? If Guild Wars wasn't free it would have less kids running around cause their parents bought the game. But it is not that way it's FREE. Greedy? I say not.

1 or 2 slots, im guessing 2 at most. It's plain and simple what ever the outcome, some will buy chapter 2 and some won't.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Diablo had for its time hella a good graphics as well and the servers are free as well.

Sacred, same thing its a good game albeit more hack and slash then rpg but still free servers and only 1 time payment.

The storage for an rpg isn't that much more either.

In the end, they should not differentiate between a standalone or a combined account in hte number of slots since in hte end if you don't combine it it is more storage and thus more costly than having one that contains both.

Loviatar · Feb 14, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

to all the people who are saying if i dont get 4/x slots i refuse to buy the game and GW will eventually die from the loss of our business.

join this crowd who stated if their demands were not met they would not only leave but tell their friends not to buy it either.

GW would then die of fewer people coming in to buy the game.

UAS OR WE LEAVE

LEVEL CAP RAISE OR WE LEAVE

UBER FARMING ITEMS OR WE LEAVE

GIVE US MORE SLOTS OR WE LEAVE

you will have as much (or less effect then most of the above)

if you havent noticed it GW is shaking out the players that are not happy with the new style game they have made at the same time attracting multiple people for every one leaving.

with all the bad word of mouth from the above leavers GW is still a top seller
it is expanding not getting smaller

AND A SIGN OF THAT INCREASED INTEREST IN THE GAME IS REFLECTED IN THE INCREASING NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE MOST OF WHICH ARE ENJOYING THE GAME AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT CHAPTER.

CKaz · Feb 14, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Okay. I'm going to remain in control of myself this time and point out that all the people saying they're going to be skipping Chapter 2 if ArenaNet doesn't give them a slot for everything they want are basically refusing to buy the brand new car because it doesn't automatically come with a radio.

Hammer don't hurt em!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

You don't reect a great game because it doesn't have quite the number of save slots you'd like it to, guys.

Ok first I thought you were trying to say 'react' but must have been 'reject'.
But that's exactly the point of the thread, reject it we will - but we'd rather not have to!

If it was save slots, whoopeefriggindo. But it isn't, don't downplay it.
It's *character slots*. No other game designed like this hamstrings you like this (compare to regular MMORPGs, Diablo2, whatever you want to).

They started off with too few, many of us have already run into trouble.
One is a joke and two won't cut it for many of us. Why crimp it so?
So far it looks like FULL FARE for an EXPANSION of our game.
NEW owners will get 4 slots, RETURN owners? There-in lies the debate.

Many of us have multiple copies for our household (myself included).
It's so easy to use up the slots do I really have to spell it out?
Why should I pay another full fare for a game that makes me delete LONG standing characters I've unlocked skills for the PvE experience for and enjoy playing? We're supposed to be able to enjoy the game many different ways, why gimp it so? Am I a bad man for wanting to play with my wife through pre-sear and on, getting her interested in the game over time? But I had 3 characters for unlocks, level 20, the works - do I now nuke one so I can use all the PvP unlocks? And then pay $50, get 1-2 slots, and now wonder what to nuke/choose for PvE/PvP right at the getgo? Talk about no room to grow, I'm hamstrung at the door. And I want to upgrade my wife on top of that?

Nah. There are other games to interest if it comes to that.

If they feel they can get one or more full fare copies pushed our way yet add 1/3 the new characters and 1/2-1/4 new slots, they'd only be able to get that fractional cost from me. I'm not even so concerned about just 2 new classes and I like some of the new content and mechanic ideas (we'll see what that translates too though). But I still wait for the announcement, no I won't pay admission if the magic # is 1-2.

They started with too few, that's not our fault. Be interesting to see if they address it or leave a mess in their wake. There are always other gaming options. Some will say 'yah but no monthly!' - quite the contrary, 6mo expansions and multiple copies there certainly is. If I'm going to pay in such a fashion I don't want a (IMO) failure on their part to limit that experience.

I'm glad to hear it sounds like they're at least resolving some storage issues (more, holiday storage, runes of superior holding, whatever, I'm sure they'll love the gold sink on the latter). But a bigger key mechanic illustrated in the pole (tied for #1, 1/3 of all the votes) show a LOT of people are watching the character slot # with interest - quite frankly it highlights (again IMO) their failure to initially provide enough. So however they want to re-address it.

If they want to retro-actively have proficies get '6' slots, expansions 2, while every standalone sits with a minimum of 4, fine. Our copy was tough to jam in so many unlocks/options into 4 with any kind of breathing room.

If they want to suggest any standalone always has 4 slots + 2 pvp, every expansion adds 2 more slots, fine. Though unless they gain some real storage/benefit this way not setting those at pvp helps those who ONLY pve and want to have one of every base class.

But unless it weighs in at 8 one way or another (and again for those all pve every character hungry may not want to set one or two of them pvp only) there will be a lot of people pausing, if not passing on it, by that fact alone.

Even if you DON'T feel you're hamstrung, why are return gamers buying an EXPANSION (which expands our content) for the same price new gamers are buying a STANDALONE (which gives them the game, original chars and a bit of what we already paid for/have access too) AND get more slots? That's a whole other 'not feel so good' thread on guild-hall. That only bothers me because I AM hamstrung, I don't think I'd care if I wasn't. If we get passed the slot hurdle, 2 classes/2 slots per expansion really doesn't seem that bad. It's just a lot of us are faced with deleting characters now/going forward, so you mix all that in and toss it around it could be a lot of egg on their face.

It's thus up to ANet to decide how much of a gamble it is to not give us what we want and feel is fair. I'm sure they were happy with my households $100 and how I got others involved. I'm still a bit surprised they're playing it out so long, I'd like to know if I'm keeping with this game or not at least before the pre-order package. Otherwise I'll have an account with about 900hrs and 25 skills left to finish in a bit of limbo. Wouldn't be bad to get some of that free time back though lol

Again keep in mind I'm pretty happy with GW and played a lot of its aspects including GvG & HoH. Isn't it odd I got in the bind by bringing more people (and money) into ANets coffers and wanting to play with them, making a monk? Silly me...

So I have to give up using my unlocks and rich PvP options and rolls into hard options in chapter 2 (deletion) with only a slot or two granted - wouldn't cut it here. Even more a kick in the face as we get more content to take them through and are faced with such consideration.

Oh well more than long enough, but maybe it'll help another one person or two get it, particularly if the expansion comes out with just a slot or two and they wonder what happened to all the people

SpeedyKQ · Feb 14, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Storage space is cheap, dirt cheap. The cost of storing 1 vs 4 character slots is negligible, I expect.

The number of slots is purely a business decision on Anet's part, intended to maximize sales. By only having 4 slots in the original, they probably lost very few first-time buyers, but they gained many sales from people buying multiple copies.

The number of new slots in the expansion will be based on the same calculation - they may want some people to buy multiple copies for more slots, but they don't want to lose sales by annoying people away from the franchise. The number of slots is a big hot-button issue, so they may take the safe route and appease the player base with the hopes that we'll keep buying two $50 games a year. Or they may figure enough of us are hooked that they can keep the slot count low and we'll still keep buying.

Loviatar · Feb 14, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Even if you DON'T feel you're hamstrung, why are return gamers buying an EXPANSION (which expands our content) for the same price new gamers are buying a STANDALONE (which gives them the game, original chars and a bit of what we already paid for/have access too) AND get more slots? p

first i do NOT repeat NOT think you are stupid but where do you (and others) keep coming up with the *EXPANSION* term?

Anet has gone to the figurative ends of the earth saying it is a complete separate STAND ALONE game in and of itself that you have the OPTION to continue in the new FULL GAME CONTENT with a character you have lovingly built in CHAPTER 1 and can then take this same character on to a FULL NEW GAME CALLED CHAPTER 3.

AS FOR THE SO CALLED ADDITIONAL SLOTS

IF someone buys chapter 2 first and then gets chapter 1...........

SURPRISE they wont get 4 additional slots they will get the number of additional slots we get for adding chapter 2 to chapter 1

same total slot number for each.

NO EXTRA BONUS SLOTS

CKaz · Feb 14, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

They lost a lot of PvP players due to UAS, and if you haven't noticed a lot since release as well. I've had many friends leave/quit GW/disappear entirely.
Many zones arent what they used to be anymore, even higher level content zones.

If the new style is pissing of your core audience yeah that's a problem.
This game hasn't been made and decided on yet, all your other examples either are after the fact or are silly.

I doubt GW would die if they just add 2 slots.
But they'll lose a lot of continuing revenue.

Yes they'll pick up a lot of new players - cool new stuff, 4 slots, a feeling of true value @$50 (heck I'd buy it as a NEW player). As a returing player, no.

A lot of households with many accounts are put out (I'm two here, I know some with four or more) won't pile it on without more consideration here. Several entire guilds have mentioned it as well. UAS was a big thing - admitably I can't relate I wasn't that involved at the outset, like to PvE, so it didnt hit me below the belt. But to suggest it didn't have a big effect, heck I'm not a big PvPer but it's pretty evident it did. Here's a chance to bring up a problem BEFORE it hits so we are.

I'm not sure why you keep flogging it from the other side, you're certainly not going to change our mind and our goal is to make sure ANet knows about it. What you quibble and theorize about doesn't matter in the least. Many of us will give up on Factions without more than two slots. Period.

Which wouldn't be a happy time (until we move on anyways).
Which is why we try to make the noise NOW rather than LATER.

Sure they're bringing in new business, and as you say quite possibly quicker than the threat from the old business. But to ignore that wouldn't be good or even smart business. We'll see if we've made enough impression or not soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

to all the people who are saying if i dont get 4/x slots i refuse to buy the game and GW will eventually die from the loss of our business.

join this crowd who stated if their demands were not met they would not only leave but tell their friends not to buy it either.

GW would then die of fewer people coming in to buy the game.

UAS OR WE LEAVE

LEVEL CAP RAISE OR WE LEAVE

UBER FARMING ITEMS OR WE LEAVE

GIVE US MORE SLOTS OR WE LEAVE

you will have as much (or less effect then most of the above)

if you havent noticed it GW is shaking out the players that are not happy with the new style game they have made at the same time attracting multiple people for every one leaving.

with all the bad word of mouth from the above leavers GW is still a top seller
it is expanding not getting smaller

AND A SIGN OF THAT INCREASED INTEREST IN THE GAME IS REFLECTED IN THE INCREASING NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE MOST OF WHICH ARE ENJOYING THE GAME AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT CHAPTER.

CKaz · Feb 14, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Problem is their unlock model - I bought an extra copy for my wife but not myself. It takes a LOT of time to do the unlocks. I think no UAS AND no extra character slots AND followed up by not being able to add slots/another account to your acRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO causes a lot of this as well - poor model.

And I think you're right in some of the below, certainly the 'keep em hooked and low slots'. But a lot of us will be fed up with $50 at the door and not another 4 slots for our return, that's for sure, enough to give it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

Storage space is cheap, dirt cheap. The cost of storing 1 vs 4 character slots is negligible, I expect.

The number of slots is purely a business decision on Anet's part, intended to maximize sales. By only having 4 slots in the original, they probably lost very few first-time buyers, but they gained many sales from people buying multiple copies.

The number of new slots in the expansion will be based on the same calculation - they may want some people to buy multiple copies for more slots, but they don't want to lose sales by annoying people away from the franchise. The number of slots is a big hot-button issue, so they may take the safe route and appease the player base with the hopes that we'll keep buying two $50 games a year. Or they may figure enough of us are hooked that they can keep the slot count low and we'll still keep buying.

Gli · Feb 14, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

Anet has gone to the figurative ends of the earth saying it is a complete separate STAND ALONE game in and of itself that you have the OPTION to continue in the new FULL GAME CONTENT with a character you have lovingly built in CHAPTER 1 and can then take this same character on to a FULL NEW GAME CALLED CHAPTER 3.

You can't have it both ways, Loviatar. If I wanted to take this option with my existing characters, it seems I WON'T ACTUALLY GET all the benefits of a full new standalone game, I'll be lacking A FULL COMPLEMENT OF CHARACTER SLOTS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

AS FOR THE SO CALLED ADDITIONAL SLOTS

IF someone buys chapter 2 first and then gets chapter 1...........

SURPRISE they wont get 4 additional slots they will get the number of additional slots we get for adding chapter 2 to chapter 1

same total slot number for each.

NO EXTRA BONUS SLOTS

No one implied there would be 'bonus' slots for people who buy GW:P after GW:F. It just doesn't make sense that, disregarding future purchases which are after all only hypothetical, people get a different number of slots based upon earlier purchases. Person A who only ever buys GW:F could make 4 assassin characters, while person B who bought GW:P earlier can only make 1 (or 2), unless he deletes characters he already paid for. Unless of course person B creates a separate account and foregoes all the benefits of having bought GW:P. I can't bring my head around how anyone could believe this is a desirable situation. (Unless you don't care about PvE at all or you're a raving fanboy.)

CKaz · Feb 14, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

first i do NOT repeat NOT think you are stupid but where do you (and others) keep coming up with the *EXPANSION* term?

It expands what I can do with my game regarding my current characters, content, and experience. It leverages A LOT of what already exists, including the skills, battle engine, graphics, and music I've already paid for.

For those returning to the game, it certainly is an expansion. I think the idea of hooking people into the game making it a standalone works, great for them!
But we're ADDING this account to our EXISTING account when we get it, and EXPANDING the game - I'm rather sure there will be one interface and EXE. I could be wrong, but even that doesn't stop it from being an Expansion (ie warcraft3 and its expansion have different icons/interface/exe). Just because they put the plumbing in to run by itself doesn't dodge that - that's what it is for returning players.

If you don't consider it as such I applaud your worldly view.
However it remains as expanding what I can do with GW and is my view.
Certainly if I didn't have GW or meant to play it alone, I'd take more your tact.
And most certainly if I ate all the marketing material you shot out for 'em

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

AS FOR THE SO CALLED ADDITIONAL SLOTS

IF someone buys chapter 2 first and then gets chapter 1...........

SURPRISE they wont get 4 additional slots they will get the number of additional slots we get for adding chapter 2 to chapter 1

same total slot number for each.

NO EXTRA BONUS SLOTS

Actually I'm surprised we fail to see eye to eye here, particularly as you're so fond of the standalone GW concept. If someone ONLY BUYS CHAPTER 2 they get 4 character slots. IF SOMEONE BUYS BOTH they have a number of character slots WHICH MAY BE LESS THAN 8 and is PART OF THE PROBLEM.

So why does user A get 4 slots paying $50 and user B get 5-6 slots paying $100? Because he chose to use his current characters with the next GW chapter? So if he wanted to break that experience he'd have 4 each?

Isn't it odd that we get less slots combining accounts, where the whole reason why we do so is continue to use our characters (thus slots) with the new content? I'd almost suggest it to be a cruel move - actually I will.

That makes absolutely no sense to a lot of us.
Want to enjoy the new content with your previous characters? Delete a character to continue.

edit - and for those who keep saying 'just buy another account',
another $50 and then multiply by # of chapters because they're shorting us slots?
accounts don't link, unlocks don't carry over which is a big reason we're pushed into this corner

so neither the dollars make sense (MMORPG monthly becomes CHEAPER)
nor is the purpose served (everything on one account)

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

first i do NOT repeat NOT think you are stupid but where do you (and others) keep coming up with the *EXPANSION* term?

Anet has gone to the figurative ends of the earth saying it is a complete separate STAND ALONE game in and of itself that you have the OPTION to continue in the new FULL GAME CONTENT with a character you have lovingly built in CHAPTER 1 and can then take this same character on to a FULL NEW GAME CALLED CHAPTER 3.

AS FOR THE SO CALLED ADDITIONAL SLOTS

IF someone buys chapter 2 first and then gets chapter 1...........

SURPRISE they wont get 4 additional slots they will get the number of additional slots we get for adding chapter 2 to chapter 1

same total slot number for each.

NO EXTRA BONUS SLOTS

Loviator, once more we/I are/am saying that it should for fairness sake be 8. Not for fairness sake with the people applying it, but for the people buying them both.

It won't be a full new game. The content that is showcased seems more like an expasnion then a full game. A new full game would be 6 new professions and full game content. Not to mention that the figurative linking of GW and GW-F makes it come over more like an expansion then a full game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW-site

Is Guild Wars Factions an expansion pack or a stand-alone game?

Guild Wars Factions is a stand-alone product. Those who own Guild Wars are not required to purchase Guild Wars Factions in order to continue playing on their game account, and those who purchase Guild Wars Factions may play without purchasing Guild Wars. However, there is a strong level of interconnection between the two games that makes having them both an exceptional experience.

Heck reading in between the marketing lines identifies it as an expansionpack with standalone abilities. So please don't act dumb and think it isn't an expansion pack...

expansion

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=expansion

n 1: the act of increasing (something) in size or volume or quantity or scope

nazgul55 · Feb 14, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

i would be happy if they added 2 new char slots and not 4, but 1 is way too small especially if ppl only buy factions they will get 4 times more character slots.i dont understand why arenanet would purposefly make our lives harder by either making us play with 2 diff acccounts or making us play 1 account with a very low amouynt of char slots. right now Anet is pissin me off.

Ultimate Warrior · Feb 14, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

You guys all know that anet hasnt said how many new slots there will be yet right??